Trial Excerpts
The following are excerpts from Giovanni Reid and Carlton Bennett's trial. The jury deliberated for approximately two hours before finding both Reid and Bennett guilty of conspiracy to murder.
Please read carefully how Mr. Wallace and Mr. Harrison cross-examined Ms. Hill to elicit some logical answers as to her behavior on that morning. Why did she hang around the immediate vicinity during the commission of the robbery/shooting? Why is it that she only saw three black males and not six? Why did the police know where to find Ms. Hill two days after the shooting? Who told them that she would be there? How did they know to look for a woman supposedly wearing a white nurse's uniform? Why did she have to wear her white nurse's uniform to court, yet Dr. Baker did not wear a doctor's uniform to court? In the middle of Dr. Baker's testimony, why did Mr. McGovern ask Ms. Hill to come into the courtroom to be identified by Dr. Baker as having been at the crime scene, yet Mr. McGovern did not ask the same of Dr. Baker during Ms. Hill's testimony? Why does she never describe having seen a light-skinned black male? The list of unanswered questions goes on and on.
I. Mr. McGovern introduces Ms. Hill to the Court
Q: Good morning, Miss Hill.
A: Good morning.
Q: Miss Hill, I see that you're in a white nurse's uniform. How long have you been a nurse?
A: Three years.
Q: And, Miss Hill, were you a nurse on August the 10 th of 1991?
A: Yes.
Further along.
Q: And what were you wearing at that time?
A: White uniform
Q: Similar to the white uniform-
A: Same, yes
Q:--you are wearing in court today?
II. Ms. Hill is cross-examined by defense attorney Mr. Harrison
(A) Mr. Harrison questions Ms. Hill about her nursing skills.
Q: Now, first question I want to ask you, you say you have been a nurse three years?
A: Right.
Q: You are telling me a nurse can't describe people with weight and height? Don't nurses do that all the time?
Mr. McGovern: Objection. That's argumentative.
Judge Savitt: Just a moment. I sustain the objection
Q: Let me just see. Don't nurses take people's heights and weights all the time?
A: Yes. But most of the people I deal with is old people.
Q: Old people?
A: Yes.
Q: Are old people shorter than young people?
A: No. Most of them is in bed and, like I said, I'm not very good on heights nor weights.
Q: Do you take heights?
A: Yes, I do.
Q: How many heights have you taken in the three years you've been a nurse?
A: Oh, maybe about 10 at the most. Mostly we do it is weights. We doesn't do too many heights.
Q: You don't do too many heights?
A: No.
Q: Well, when you gave this description to the police, did you tell the police, well, you know, I'm not very good at giving weights or heights?
A: Yes, I did tell them.
Q: You did tell them that?
A: Yes.
Q: You put it in your statement?
A: Oh, I don't know about that.
Q: But you did tell them that?
A: I'm not good on weights or heights, yes.
Q: Okay. I just want to be sure...
(B) Mr. Harrison questions Ms. Hill about her actions immediately preceding the shooting. He seems to be concerned that Ms. Hill lingered in the vicinity for so long before and during the shooting. In a reference to the black male whose presence was frightening to Ms. Hill, Mr. Harrison asked:
Q: I want to make sure I've got this right. And this gentleman looked at you?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Right? Then you crossed the street, you crossed from the south side of South Street to the north side of South Street ?
A: Right.
Q: Is that correct?
A: That's correct.
Q: All right. And this gentleman just turned around, correct?
A: Correct.
Q: And he walked back to the southeast corner of South and 17 th ; is that right?
A: Correct.
Q: Then you crossed over the street?
A: Yes.
Q: And you started walking through the intersection of South and 17 th ?
A: Yes.
Q: Is that right? Now, were there any other people on the street other than the white male and the three black males?
A: And me. That was it.
Q: Nobody?
A: I didn't see anyone else. I put it like that. I didn't see anyone else.
Q: Did you look around?
A: No, I didn't, really, no.
Q: You didn't look around?
A: Unh-unh.
Q: Okay. So you only saw these three people and you say this guy saw you?
A: Yes, he did.
Q: And he walked over here, the same guy that shot somebody just, you said, saw you walking across the street, right?
A: Right.
Q: I just wanted to make sure.
Mr. McGovern: Objection, Your Honor, to Mr. Harrison's comment.
Judge Savitt: Yes, that's not necessary.
Mr. Harrison: Fine
Judge Savitt: It is not necessary for counsel to explain the purpose of their question.
Mr. Harrison: Fine
Judge Savitt: You may continue.
Q: Now, when you got in the middle of 17 th Street , you say you saw a white male sitting in the middle?
A: Correct.
Q: Black male sitting to the right of him?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Another black male sitting to the other side of him?
A: Right.
Q: Right? Then the male who had crossed the street towards you walked in front of the white male and said, "Get up M-F"?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. Then you described how the two black males helped the white male up?
A: They did.
Q: Now, what were you doing while all this was happening?
A: I was crossing the street. I had never even got to the corner. I was headed towards 17 th Street . As I crossed towards in the middle of 17 th Street , that's when they got - - made the white man get up.
Q: Okay. But let me ask you this.
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Tell me where to stop. Let's say that you - - that's where you are right now watching these two black males help the white male up. Okay.
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Tell me where to stop. Tell me how far away they were from you.
A: They was on the opposite side of the - - I hadn't event got to the corner.
Q: Tell me where to stop.
A: Okay.
Q: Right here?
A: Yeah.
Q: So you are watching - -
McGovern: Indicating, Your Honor, about 30 feet.
Q: 30 feet away?
A: Yes.
Q: Now - - and you could hear what was being said?
A: He was saying it loud enough for me to hear him.
Q: And you were close enough to see the expression on the white man's face?
A: Yes.
Q: And he looked scared?
A: He did.
Q: Okay. When the white male got up - -
A: Uh-huh.
Q: - - you indicated that two black males were still on either side of him; is that right?
A: Correct.
Q: They were walking him down the street?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. As they were walking him down the street, where were you?
A: I was like in the middle of 17 th Street at that time.
Q: Had you stopped?
A: No, I still was walking.
Q: Still walking?
A: Yes.
Q: Now, how far had they walked down 17 th Street ?
A: Well, it is a few feet from the corner to the iron gate.
Q: Okay. Now - - and you are still walking?
A: Yes.
Q: Still crossing the street?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Okay. The black male is behind the white male, right?
A: Yes.
Q: How far behind, would you say?
A: Oh, he was right at his back, close to him.
Q: A matter of inches?
A: A matter of inches.
Q: And the black male to the left of the white male, he was a matter of inches?
A: Correct.
Q: I mean, touching?
A: They was holding him, yeah, they was holding him.
Q: And so was the guy on the right-hand side?
A: Yes.
Q: Now, the black guy was right behind him and you're still walking, right?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you ever stop?
A: No, I never stop.
Q: You never stop walking?
A: No.
Q: Now, then you say you didn't hear anything else said; is that right?
A: I didn't hear anything else said.
Q: Are you sure about that?
A: I'm positive. No more than anybody was telling him to move it.
Q: That's all they were saying?
A: That's all.
Q: How many voices did you hear?
A: I didn't hear but one. That was the fellow - -
Q: What - -
A: - - that was standing - -
Mr. McGovern: I'm sorry, Your Honor; may the witness complete the answer? Mr. Harrison, I know he is interested in asking questions. They are coming rapid fire and the witness is barely completing the answer. I just ask the witness - -
Judge Savitt: Well, I'll be mindful of that. I think that at this point the questions are being appropriately asked. You may proceed.
Mr. Harrison: I will slow down.
Judge Savitt: Try to go ahead. You may proceed.
Q: Only one person was talking?
A: Correct.
Q: That person was the man with the gun?
A: Correct.
Q: That's the person behind the white male?
A: Correct.
Q: Then the man with the gun stops with the other three people at the iron gate?
A: Correct.
Q: You're still walking?
A: Yes.
Q: Still crossing the street?
A: Went - - yes.
Q: Then you see what you thought at first was a knife?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Placed to the side of the white male's head?
A: Yes.
Q: The two black males are still on either side of him, still touching the guy?
A: Yes.
Q: The black male then shoots the white guy?
A: Yes.
Q: The two black males on either side of him drop the white male; correct?
A: Yes.
Q: He falls on his back, correct?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: Do they ever look back at you?
A: No.
Q: Never look back at you? And they run down Bainbridge?
A: I don't know where they ran. They ran down 17 th Street . I don't know whether they ran down Bainbridge or Kater. They ran down 17 th Street .
Q: So they run down 17 th Street ?
A: Yes.
Q: Are you still crossing the street?
A: No. By the time, when I put my foot on the curb to touch on the other side of 17 th Street , that's when the shot went off.
Q: All right. Let me ask you this: How much time would you say passed from the time you started crossing 17 th Street , when you first saw the individuals sitting on the step, until they ran away?
A: I would say a couple of minutes.
Q: A couple of minutes?
A: A few minutes.
Q: Now, you watched at least until the males ran down 17 th Street ?
A: I watched until the shot went off. They ran, then I ran.
Q: Now, you still hadn't seen anybody else on the street?
A: No. At that time I didn't see anyone else on the street.
Q: Did you see any black - - okay. Strike that. Then you went to the phone booth?
A: Correct.
Q: When you passed - - let me ask you this: Is there a little phone right next to the abandoned store just a few feet east of - - on South Street ?
A: Yes, there is.
Q: You passed that phone?
A: It was on - - at that time I don't know whether that telephone booth was there or not. But I wasn't about to cross over to that side to where they were. I just kept running on the same side that I were.
Q: Okay. But they weren't on that side of the street; hadn't they run down 17 th Street ?
A: They ran down 17 th Street . I didn't know whether they were going to come back.
Q: You don't know whether they were coming to 16 th Street ?
A: You are right, you are correct, I didn't know.
Q: But you stopped there?
A: I stopped at a phone booth, yes, I did.
Q: Now, and you called 911?
A: Yes.
Q: And you told them what you saw?
A: I told the operator that a Caucasian male had been shot at the corner of 17 th and South.
Q: Okay. And then you went back around to the scene?
A: Yes.
Q: Not knowing whether the black males would return back to that individual, you didn't know that, did you?
A: Right, no.
Q: But you weren't afraid to go back?
A: No. My main thing was to try to help him.
Q: Okay. So you went back?
A: Yes.
Continuing, Mr. Harrison questions Ms. Hill about her actions immediately following the shooting up until her encounter with homicide detectives two days following the shooting:
Q: And when you got back, you saw the two doctors there?
A: Correct.
Q: And when you saw the two doctors there, you told the two doctors what you had seen?
A: I told the two doctors that he had been shot by a black male, there was three of them that was together.
Q: Okay.
A: Yes.
Q: And what's the next thing you did?
A: I stood there until the police came. Everything was so hectic. They were trying to consume the scene, making everybody get back, and then I told them I had to leave.
Q: When the police came, did you tell the police, "I saw what happened. My name is Lorraine Hill. My address is such-and-such"?
A: No, they didn't give me time to.
Q: What do you mean they didn't give you time?
A: He was so busy pushing people back that he didn't ask. And I had to leave.
Q: Well, didn't you say, "Well, sir, I saw what happened"?
A: No, sir, I did not, no.
Q: You didn't do that?
A: No, I didn't, I did not.
Q: As a matter of fact, had Detective Cahill not walked down - been on the intersection of 17 th and South two days later with you going through the same routine and going to work, you wouldn't have seen the police up to that time, right?
A: Probably, right.
Mr. McGovern: Objection.
Mr. Harrison: I said up to that point.
Judge Savitt: No, overruled.
Mr. McGovern: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the end.
Furthermore, Judge Savitt questions Ms. Hill about how the police knew how to find her when they did, at that specific location and at that exact time:
Judge Savitt: Did you first see the police two days later?
Ms. Hill: Yes.
Judge Savitt: And up until two days later, you hadn't discussed what you had seen with any police; is that correct?
Ms. Hill: That's correct.
Judge Savitt: And what happened two days later?
Ms. Hill: Detective Cahill and another detective was at the corner of 17 th and South waiting for me that morning as I was going to work.
Judge Savitt: And what happened?
Ms. Hill: And they asked me would I go down and give them a statement.
Judge Savitt: How did they know?
Ms. Hill: The doctors told them that.
Mr. Harrison: Objection.
Judge Savitt: Okay.
Q: In other words, someone - because as a result of some other conversation they had with someone else?
A: Right.
Q: Well, did you meet them by arrangement two days later?
A: No.
Q: By accident?
A: They was there waiting for me.
Judge Savitt: I see. I see.
Mr. Harrison: That's my point.
Judge Savitt: You may proceed.
Q: That's my point. So just to be clear, you just witnessed something you had never seen before in your life?
A: Never.
Q: Right. And you are the only one, as far as you knew, out on the street that saw this, right?
A: Correct.
Q: But you didn't call the police and tell them, did you?
A: No.
III. Defense Attorney Michael Wallace cross examines Ms. Hill
(A) Mr. Wallace inquires of Ms. Hill as to how the police knew where to find her. But first, he asked Ms. Hill pointed questions as to the complexion of Mr. Reid.
Q: Mr. Reed, stand up. Would you describe him as dark complected?
A: No.
Q: (Sit down). Now, there's no question in your mind that the gentlemen you saw, three gentlemen, were dark complexions?
A: Yeah, I would say so. I could be a little off.
Q: Now, you gave this statement about two days, almost exactly 48 hours, later?
A: Yes.
Q: If I recall it, it was about 5:50 a.m. and you were on your way to work, I believe you said?
A: Yes.
Q: And I believe you said you didn't have a pre-arranged meeting; it was Detective Cahill and, I believe, Detective Farabelli, yeah, Farabelli, two detectives were waiting for you?
A: Right.
Q: Did they approach you?
A: Yes, they did.
Q: And assuming they identified themselves?
A: Yes.
Q: And you knew who they were?
A: Yes.
Q: At that point in time when they identified themselves, they were right at the scene of 17 th and South; correct?
A: Correct, correct.
Q: And that's the area where this incident took place, the exact area?
A: Right.
Q: When they approached you, did - - what did they say to you?
A: They identified their self and they asked me did I see a murder happen there that Saturday, that someone had gave them a description that a nurse with a white uniform was coming past that way, and they would just take by chance that I was going back that way to work that morning. And they asked me did I see anything, and I told them yes. And they asked me would I come in and give them a statement, and I said yes.
(B) Mr. Wallace questions Ms. Hill as to the complexions of the so-called assailants.
Q: And when you described the gentleman who walked up South Street towards you, I believe you said: "He was the same guy that walked towards me. He was a black male between 18 and 23, maybe 5 feet 5 to 5'7", thin to medium build, black baseball cap, black shiny-type windbreaker, black jacket, lavender stripe across the shoulders, his pants were" - - excuse me, "his pants were black and he had on black sneakers. He was dark-complected and I didn't notice any facial hair."
A: That's what I said.
Q: And the gentleman I asked to stand up, Mr. Reed, is not dark complected; is that correct?
A: No. Neither one of them are dark complected.